Zoology What's it like to be a bat?

Discussion in 'Zoology' started by Icewolf, Mar 25, 2005.

  1. Icewolf

    Icewolf Premium Member

    What\'s it like to be a bat?

    No, not the wooden kind.

    The ones that fly.
    First off it would be quite an experience to fly.
    Secondly our consciousness would be different, we would no longer be seing with our eyes. It would literarily be like looking at the world in a cmopletely different way. But unfortunately it is truly impossible to imagine being a bat. Although it would interesting to see the greatest minds on earth. (i.e the people at ID) come up with a few theories.
  2. mscbkc070904

    mscbkc070904 Premium Member

    I am not sure if you read about the thread on bats that I posted, but here is the thread http://www.ignorancedenied.com/viewthread.php?tid=2196

    Maybe if you could visualize reading it, thru the mind and eyes of bats you might get a clear vision of what it might be like.
  3. oddtodd

    oddtodd Premium Member

    If you EVER come across an attic full of bat droppings , put on a good respirator to avoid any poo dust and sweep it up ! One of the best natural fertilizers on earth and sells for about 8 bucks a pound .

    A friend of mine tore down an old barn for salvage and made more off the years of guano build-up than he did on the lumber !

    Mid-life crisis thru the mind of a bat : Did she just call me a glorified moth ? Am I really a rodent , sounds so impersonal .... Maybe I won't eat the misquitoes this season and see how she feels in the fall...

    *bump* *ouch* note to self : have radar upgraded and ears enlarged , scare puny humans , eat bugs at the neighbors instead...

    Great thread link mscbkc !
  4. parrhesia

    parrhesia Member

    Have you been reading Nagel? ;)

    What'd you think of his explanation of the whole thing?
    Like knowing the objective facts of what it's like to be a bat (eg. sonar, etc.) but being totally unaware of the subjectivity of the experience. Knowing, but not really knowing.

    I think he drove home the point of the importance of subjectivity in regard to knowledge, and I can agree with him that it doesn't appear that there can be a reduction of conscious states to physical states.

    Have you read Paul Churchland? He wrote an article called Reduction, Qualia, and the Direct Introspection of the Brain in which he challenges Nagels arguments from the bat article. Churchland is a reductionist and eliminativist (sp), and his arguments are interesting to read, but there are some holes in them, particularly with regard to his assumptions/hope that we'll some day be able to directly know the states of our brains through introspection. He does make you reconsider Nagel's arguments by pointing out his circular arguments.

    I'm going off topic, but if you haven't read him and you're interested in philosophy of mind you should definitely check him out. Some of his stuff is tough going, but it's worth it.

  5. oddtodd

    oddtodd Premium Member

    I have a tough time with philosophy , being the creature of habit that I am , well read but unlearned as it were .

    I just rented "What The Bleep Do We Know" and found the mixture of philosophy and science very revealing . I'll look up your suggestions .

    You should drop in more often .
  6. parrhesia

    parrhesia Member

    What's that about? Don't think I've heard of it :)

    I'm around, just not always logged in or posting :)
  7. oddtodd

    oddtodd Premium Member

    The movie is a laymans explaination of how quantum theory is controlled by our observations of our surroundings ( aka shrodingers cat in the box) . Everything is possible and in fact does happen until we make an observation and wipes out all the other lines of happening .

    Makes some sense about controlling our destiny by being concious of not how our environment affects us , but how we actually "cause it to exist"
  8. parrhesia

    parrhesia Member

    Sounds cool, and seems like it'd shed an interesting light on the freewill debate.

    I'll have to look for it. :up:
  9. Mark

    Mark ♤♡◇♧ Staff Member

    I found it to be a very interesting movie.

    Although it intertwines many different concepts of our existance,.. it seems to do a pretty good job of it.

    I would also suggest keeping in mind who is behind the production and their intents.
  10. Young William

    Young William Premium Member

    I assume you're talking about "seeing" without optical perception. . I think it would be a wonderful oppurtunity to explore and experience the realm of heightened senses, or at least trying to use our other senses to do the sight's work.
  11. pineappleupsidedown

    pineappleupsidedown Premium Member

    A suggestion was made to move this thread to the zoology forum. It is there now.
  12. Icewolf

    Icewolf Premium Member

    No, this is a philosophical question about perception and consciousness stated in the book "Introducing consciousness" by David Papineau, if you wish this thread to be here then I suggest you move my other one on consciousness to chemistry, since scientifically we can claim it's all just chemical reactions.

    - Ice -

    edited some typos
  13. parrhesia

    parrhesia Member

    I agree. This is quite a famous philosophical question, not zoological.