Politics & Gov The Constitution

Discussion in 'Politics & Government' started by pineappleupsidedown, Sep 20, 2004.

  1. pineappleupsidedown

    pineappleupsidedown Premium Member

    Do you think there is anything wrong with our(the United States) constitution?
    I personally think that #2 (the right to bear arms), is in need of an update, its too easy to shoot somebody nowadays.

    Any other changes(or additions) that you think should be done?
     
  2. Mizar

    Mizar Premium Member

    the constution is what the united states of ameria was founded upon. it was the dreams ans wishes of great men to make a great nation. to change the constution changes the nation for it would no longer be the country it was founded to be. if we change the constution we need to change america.

    get what im saying?
     
  3. DreamLandMafia

    DreamLandMafia Premium Member

    It barely even matters anymore...its been ripped to shreds anyways.
     
  4. Mizar

    Mizar Premium Member

    thats because america is a country of buissnessmen who have long sence forgoten the greatness their home was founded upon. We have lost all but a few of the Patriots that take pride and honor in the values this great nation was founded upon. whenever these patriots speak up and support the constution for what it is they are deemed radicals and their voices are never heard.

    its ok to grow and change but never forget who you are.
     
  5. pineappleupsidedown

    pineappleupsidedown Premium Member

    yes, but i think america has already changed. And as DreamlandMafia said (and i heard that cynicism in your voice, lighten up a bit Mafia :p) we dont listen to it much anyways. So I think we need to update the constitution so it is appropriate for these new times.

    ---pineapple
     
  6. DreamLandMafia

    DreamLandMafia Premium Member

    I didnt mean we dont listen to it much anymore...I meant that its just a piece of paper from the past. The USA PATRIOT Act tore it to shreds, before that took effect it was pretty much intact, and I agree the 2nd needs to be a little more refined from The Right To Bear Arms, since Arms can be Nuclear Arms as well. The only updated that would need to be done to the Constitution to be appropriate with these new times is to chuck it in the fire and watch it burn.

    BTW...I had to look in the Dictionary for cynicism :p:) and yeah...you were right. Its a subject I feel strongly on.
     
  7. Bleys

    Bleys Phoenix Takes Flight Staff Member

    I can't imagine rescinding or restricting the 2nd amendment - to me the 2nd amendment is as important as the 1st.

    The right to bear arms does not give anyone the right to arbitrarily shoot someone or promote violence against others. What's needed is not more do nothing/feel good laws on the guns themselves but tougher laws against those who use guns in the commission of a crime.

    You worry way too much about this Act. If recent SCOTUS decisions are any indication of the dim view the court takes on some of the government's actions as of late- this Act will soon be one without any teeth.
     
  8. pineappleupsidedown

    pineappleupsidedown Premium Member

    Bleys, You have made a good point, however on Sept 13 the Assault Weapons Act that banned 19 different assault weapons expired. Do you think that will make any difference in the amount of gun usuage?

    The only problem about harder punishments for gun crimes is that its too late to save innocents. many a combo of both...but then ppl would complain about control.

    Also, I think the US Patriot Act was a measure preparing for war. If you havent noticed, war makes the gov. break a lot of rules.

    ---pineapple
     
  9. DreamLandMafia

    DreamLandMafia Premium Member

    Well apparently the war is supposedly over, if it was a measure preparing for war (which it wasnt) it would be gone by now. But it isnt, and its just getting fed too.

    BTW...the USA PATRIOT Act was passed in October 2001, the War in Iraq started in March 2003...not much of a prep. for the war. And if I recall the War in Afghanistan started BEFORE the Act was proposed and passed. Even in reading the Act...which you all should do...it has NOTHING to do with either Wars.
     
  10. Bleys

    Bleys Phoenix Takes Flight Staff Member

    I saw that Hamdi was released this week. If the Patriot Act and Ashcroft and his thought police can't keep someone this dangerous in custody I think the Act is going to end up being all bark no bite.

    And I understand what you are saying about the victims of gun crime. I just have a different perspective. Look at DUIs, you don't see the government rushing to ban alcohol. I think it has everything to do with ones perception. It's like the recent beheadings - we are so shocked and horrified, but is it any different for the soldier whose killed in a mortar attack or the child who is beat to death.

    Bleys
     
  11. pineappleupsidedown

    pineappleupsidedown Premium Member

    This is because the media says it is a shocking thing, and everyone believes the media.

    Sorry. ill stop with the harsh politics

    ---pineapple
     
  12. Mizar

    Mizar Premium Member

    thats another big problem here in the US. The meida. im not trying to be political here but this is a well known fact. the meida is democratically bias. not only are they bias there but in any information they give they are biasand prep it up to look real good or real bad while letting more so truly important issues go un-noticed. When was the last time you saw the meida get hyped up over a scientific discovery? CBS gave the gennisis craft a 40 second story! but gave killings in irag 3 min! And this leads to another problem if they show only what they want to show they manipulate their veiwers. people rely on the meida fr information and they believe them with what they say if i dint care about science and i was a historain hell id think we were falling into another dark age for how little scientific advancment im seeing on the news. but any way this is abot the constution


    I do not think that the 2nd ammendment should be limited. Likes someone said something about the wepons ban lift. that didnt mea they couldnt be sold that just meant they couldnt be made then sold. You could still buy the AK-47's at gun shows but they cost alot you just wouldnt see any NEW ones. and the it says " right to bear arms which means you can have a missile or a nuke" personally i feel if you have the will to buy a nuke and the money to do it and you have a need your gona get one one way or another a law isnt going to stop someone with intentions that big. If you want one for a museuem im sure you can get a dud to display without hassle. Basicall ythat holds true for all weapons if you want it to do harm and you want it enough your going to get it one way or another.
     
  13. pineappleupsidedown

    pineappleupsidedown Premium Member

    You really think that you could buy a nuke for the right price?

    Werent a couple of nukes the reason(supposedly) that we(the US) invaded Iraq in the first place?

    I agree with you though, the media decides what is important to them, not whats important to the world in general. and a lot of ppl believe everything they hear on the news.

    Sad sad times...

    ---pineapple
     
  14. Bleys

    Bleys Phoenix Takes Flight Staff Member

    What's the old saying "if it bleeds it leads"? I agree that the media has the inclination to make things out to be worse than they are. They play on our suspicious nature and since 9-11/jakarta/madrid people are jumpy to begin with.

    I'm a pragmatist for the most part, but I find myself reacting way too much to the news. I try to make a concerted effort to find three more similar stories and to think about what I've heard before drawing conclusions.

    The US constitution allows us great liberties and freedoms - that freedom also gives the media (internet forums included) carte blanche to run with speculation and innuendo. 60 minutes latest debacle proves that.

    It is a sad commentary that we must verify everything that is reported today in the media.
     
  15. rawiea

    rawiea New Member

    At one time there was a Constitutional Amendment that outlawed alcohol consumption. It gave Organized Crime a boost so high that many mobsters actually became folk heroes. Saner minds prevailed and Prohibition was eliminated.
    I see no reason to go through this again. LAW ABIDING people do not commit crimes, with or without guns. Lets keep the the guns.

    DreamLandMafia--I am borrowing a line from your signature because it fits so well.
    "When the questions
    Aren't ever asked
    Is anybody learning from the past?"
     
  16. AD5673

    AD5673 Member

    the delegates thing, not really a democracy there
     
  17. SubVolitional

    SubVolitional Member

    The 2nd amendment is constantly being fought on and amended - from the Brady bill to various other restrictions on licensing, types of guns suitable for ownership, background checks, and various other related subtlties. The common ground for all of hem, however, is the NRA. As long as they have their noses in every attempt at change amendments will probably be few and far between. Besides, the best course of action is still education.
     
  18. My opinion is that the Constituion was a building block for America, not a define all problems document. It was a step in our countries future to help us keep to ideas that our forefathers belived were important to have in keeping a fair country, run by the people for the people. There ideas were great. They could not foresee how fast and rapidly we would evolve. Really, look how fast we have grown. We are a " Super power". In only a few hundred years, other countries have been around alot longer. The forefathers probably didnt know we would be such a hands off society. "Dont keep me tethered to a cord" wireless, society. We are on the run all the time. He couldnt foresee abortion, homesexual freedom,guns, and whatever other ideas we have today.Now I must state that I hold everyones freedom to their choice,meaning the topics above free from any hate or misdirected anger. Do what makes you happy as long as you dont hurt someone else. :sing: Let us sing freedom to all, and happiness is ours.
     
  19. pineappleupsidedown

    pineappleupsidedown Premium Member

    The government did ban alcohol... It just didnt work too well.

    ---pineapple