Metaphysics Race Against The Speed Of Light

Discussion in 'Metaphysics' started by tablet, Oct 29, 2004.

  1. tablet

    tablet Premium Member

    We know that Light is the fastest thing. How then can we beat light in a race? For sure we can't beat it in running. Perhaps a machine will do it.

    Scientist believe that we can go back in time IF we can pass the speed of light.

    Do you believe that we can create a machine that will help us go back in time? IF we can, how will the machines look like? How big will it be? What will it made out of? How much would it cost to create one? What kind of energy will it use? Where will we put this machine? Public or Private Lab?

    IF there's a time machine, surely we would want to sit in it and set the date. Then press the "travel" button. The question I have is... will the machine stay in one place yet at the same time carrying you into the past? How can a machine beat light in a race by sitting in one place? I find that mind-boggling.

    Or maybe we're going to shoot this ball or whatever shape it is into space hoping that it will go faster than the speed of light then it slow down and go back to earth, falling down and crushed some tall building? And then you walk out and have cops all over you because they think you're an alien from another planet?

    Who will use Time Machine and for what purpose if it's possible?

    Another question is: IF the past cannot be change, then what's the point of going into the past?

    Is traveling faster than the speed of light just a "dream"? IF such machine exist then Light is no longer the fastest thing in the universe! The Machine will be!

    So far no one knows what will happen for sure once we go past the speed of light. One theory say that we will go back in time and currently scientist are working to turn that theory into fact.

    hmm... is there such thing as a timeless zone (universe?) what if we enter such zone once we go past light? or even vanish and disappear?
  2. tablet

    tablet Premium Member

    Oh my, I just dropped my flashlight out the window!

    What happen if we go faster than light?
    Things slow down.

    Like what? What slow down?

    Time? Yours or mine?
    ???? maybe mine?

    So, Time slow down, but does it go backward!???

    For now I don't believe that Time travel is possible. Things might slow down but I don't think my flashlight will jump up the windows and into my room!

    [Edited on 11-13-2004 by tablet]
  3. amantine

    amantine Premium Member

    If two objects move with a certain speed relative to eachother, they both see the other's time move slower. A real change, like in the twin paradox, happens when one of the objects turns around and reaches the other object.

    The formula for time dilation in a reference frame that moves with a speed v relative to you is: t' = t sqrt( 1 - v^2/c^2 ). You can see that time becomes slower when v increases. When v = c, time stands still. But what happens when v is larger than c? You have a squareroot of a negative number. Some interpret this as time moving backward, but I think it just shows that the formula shouldn't be used for speeds larger than c.

    We can never test that, though, because the energy needed to accelerate the object further goes to infinity when it reaches c. You can never reach c if there is a finite amount of energy in the universe and whatever the amount of energy, you can never give it a speed larger than c.
  4. Waxy cheesecake

    Waxy cheesecake Premium Member

    I'm not really sure. As tablet said time would slow down and thats all we've been able to prove. The only thing thats keeping me from saying that the concept is complete rubbish is how much I want it too be true. I am currently reading a book called "physics of star trek" by Lawrence M. Krauss, and it says that the closer we get too the speed of light the greater our mass, therefore we would collapse under our own gravity before we reached the speed of light. That means we would never be able too go back in time, if that meant going faster than the speed of light. Unless we found a way too counter act that effect, we will never time travel, again if that means going faster than the speed of light.
  5. tablet

    tablet Premium Member

    Well, it's not time travel anymore. It's dimension travel (parallel world). Which I still find it hard to believe to go back in time and save someone else Kennedy.

    IF there's another ME in this world somewhere out there wouldn't he be the same age as I am now but in different universe? So If I were to travel to his world, I will probably see him as it is. We might look different because of the path we chose, but our age is the same and thus.. where's the time travel?

    Doesn't all time begin at once and then go in different direction from there on? You might bring in the "river" analogy. That some slow down when it hit an object or even go around and speed up. Still, you haven't even travel through time YET. You basically landed into another universe that is behind from yours which you considered to be your past but on somoneelse universe. IF time travel is exactly what I just described, then maybe it's possible.

    How many parallel world are there if it exist? I better find a way to kill all my other self so I get stronger in this universe and save resource (there's no need to have more than one of me. A waste of resource). IF such parallel exist.
  6. kerrymac

    kerrymac New Member

    I reckon the fabric of space is in fact time and that the amount of time that the present is here before it's the past is the period of a light wave. I only think this because if you travel faster than the speed at which each new moment is being issued by the hand of the cosmic joker or whatever, then you've got nowhere else to go but backwards.

    I mean obviously this causes problems because if time is made up of moments that exist and then cease to - it's like pictures in a flickbook and obviously you've gotto wonder what joins these babies together. I mean what's the link between each one? That sometimes makes me wonder if we aren't all a new entity every moment that just carries on the accumulated memories to give the illusion of some kind of a long term existence. This means that our past selves still exist somewhere along with our present and future ones. NIce - so it WOULD be possible to meet your past self after a bit of time travel because it's a different you anyway. Whoohoo! On the downside, if you're old and ugly - you can't console yourself with the fact that you were once young - you weren't! It's like being a before person in a wrinkle cream ad - that's all you ever were! Ha ha.

    So in short right - I think the universe is expanding at the speed of light, we're surfing on the edge of it - (we're in the fourth "space-time" dimension) and there's a lot of stuff within (all the dark matter) that doesn't manifest itself in the fourth dimension but is in the fifth and higher ones.

    That also goes some way towards the idea that if you hit the speed of light you'll have the mass of the universe because perhaps if you entered the fifth dimension which is meant to be one of those that "curled up" then you'd be nowhere at all in the 4th dimension but also perhaps somehow you'd be everywhere at once, thus you'd be the mass of the universe.

    It's a funny old question isn't it. Sometimes it's hard being a primate in this universe.
  7. black hawk

    black hawk Premium Member

    i think that is overwhielming. And we probably already do have time travel, espically whith all of our technology and all of those bases on ATS. I dont know where we would go, but it has to have it's side effects,just like prescriptions....
  8. tablet

    tablet Premium Member

    I have a question for you now. Suppose dimension travel is possible. Would you want to leave this dimension and enter another dimension where you have to relearn and adapt because the people there won't know you. You're alien to them.

    Would you risk leaving your family just for the sake of curiosity?
  9. JcMinJapan

    JcMinJapan Premium Member

    Well, I think you know my answer on this question.... ;)

    Just call me Ace Rimmer.... ;) (Hint: Think of Red Dwarf)
    I would hop into the dimension jumping ship and say ... "Smoke Me A Kipper! - I'll Be Back For Breakfast!"

    But, seriously, I am leaning towards dimensions if there is such a possibility of time travel. So, technically, not time travel. I am leaning towards the Time Slice Theory.
  10. tablet

    tablet Premium Member

    You don't feel sad leaving this world? Even I,ROBOT have feeling. Perhaps you're tire of paying taxes!? Chances are by entering another dimension you will probably becomes their slave and start paying double taxes.

    Black Hawk brough up Dragon Ball power. I think it is this kind of fantasy that really get people interest in leaving this world.

    Hmmm... I wonder what other members think.
  11. Mark

    Mark ♤♡◇♧ Staff Member

    OK,... I gotta chime in.

    Ahhh time travel. I love this subject.

    Does it take a person to go faster than the speed of light to time travel?
    Can it be done, just standing there motionless?


    In my opinion, there is no time traveling, but instead 'time-phasing' if you will.

    And without getting into building the biggest post ever,...

    Your personal molecules oscillate.
    Light is a wavelength also of an oscillation.
    If you were to 'propel' yourself into the future by increasing your speed, Doppler effected light would result from a static light source as you observe it? no? And would this not mean a near linear transition to the future, relative to your approach speed?

    Now lets look at it from another angle.

    Your body elemental activity is oscillating it's molecules at a measurable value, with minimal margin of error. Consider now, 'phase traveling' instead.

    If using an outside reference, you could increase your elemental activity (possibly thru harmonic body saturation using an external higher frequency) to the point that it increased it's primary harmonic considerably, I theorize that you could essentially go to the future as if disappearing into a ghost from the past. Or you could go only near a target phase and appear as a ghost to an observer on the other phase.

    Why am I thinking traveling time this way, instead of getting my car to go faster than light?

    Because of the Doppler shift in light, as light has calculable mass, in theory you could slow-down the light wavelengths and bring it to a solid mass, by decreasing it's primary oscillation frequency, as we know it to be.

    Light into mass,...hmmm,... mass into light...

    See what I mean?
    (except to your reference point as a traveler, you will not see the transition in yourself, but in the external surroundings instead.)

    Of course I never bought into the 'go BACK in time' theories as there are too many complexities for that to mechanically be possible.

    But if you could slow down your natural oscillations enough, you may find that you might be able to slow down enough to let the past catch up with you again. You just cant 'go back' farther back than your own existence and your first cell splitting, and my theory seems to support this thought.

    But if you were to time travel by propelling yourself somehow faster and faster until you hit the threshold of time as you know it, you may miss your planet, end up inside one, or even miss your solar system, going or coming back.

    But 'time phasing' ...
    (I coined for this discussion, but is partially extracted from a mates posts of 'vibration' level's elsewhere :up: )
    ... on the other hand will get you there without leaving the comfort of your own home.

    And remember, time is but a measurement of something moving in space, using a fixed reference point. Like the earth around the sun, the earth in it's rotation while around the sun, as well as the electrons in an atom of cesium. Kinda like all the molecules in your body.
  12. Aldarion

    Aldarion New Member

    I have thought a lot about this subject over the years and have come to the conclusion that we have gotten it all wrong. I think our biggest mistake here is trying to treat time as a physical property when I believe it is just a unit of measurement.

    I believe that the formulas we use just happen to coincidentally solve the equation so we assume it must be true. It is like the old theories of ‘spontaneous generation’, where it was believed that mice came from grains of rice. The premise was that if you put rice inside a cloth and placed it on a shelf in a dark room that mice would spontaneously generate from the grains of rice…obviously we know this to be incorrect now, but there were those that once believed this. I believe that the concept of achieving the speed of light is similar. We have made the solution fit the equation.

    A good analogy I like is between light and sound. Sound has a frequency, magnitude, duration…properties similar to light. Sound is usually described in frequency and light in wavelength, but there is a linear relationship to each other. See link.

    The speed of sound is approximately 750 MPH, depending on the altitude and the type of atmosphere, in our case oxygen. When you go faster than the speed of sound, or break the mach barrier, a sonic boom is created. You don’t hear things that happened in the past, nor does your auditory perception slow down.

    Since sound and light are related to one another, shouldn’t the same properties hold true for light as for sound. When you exceed the speed of light, approximately 186,000 mile per sec, you should see a flash of light the instant you match speed, but you would not go back in time, you would not see things that happened in the past, for time in itself is not a real thing. It is an abstract concept that is just a unit of measurement, nothing more, nothing less, and has nothing to do with mass, velocity, or energy in a physical sense.

    Another point is that there are already particles in the universe that travel at least the speed of light. Take the lowly photon for example. Photons have no electric charge and are generally regarded as particles with zero mass. Yet some photons travel at the speed of light, and they do not have infinite mass or require an infinite amount of energy to propel them. I know…my calculus and analytical geometry classes say everything I just wrote is impossible, but sometimes we have to throw out what we know and go with what we feel. I feel it is possible to exceed the speed of light, and if we don’t blow ourselves up first, we will unlock the secret. My new equation is (E=MC2(X)/X) where x is a yet discovered variable that we will be able to alter.

    I apologize for the rambling…I could have written pages, but I didn’t want to lose anyone. I hope that the abbreviated version didn’t lose anything.
  13. tablet

    tablet Premium Member

    I can't comprehend time travel, It just not right for me. And I know that it cannot be done. But it's interesting that the scientist are trying to find ways if they failed I'm sure they will at least learn something or perhaps discover something new on the way.
  14. AD5673

    AD5673 Member

    the "travel faster than light go back into time" thing is not proven, no one knows for sure...why? because we never even went at the speed of light. I think to even create a machine going faster thanlight would be a gigantic task, and humanity doesnt have the technology. If they one day did it would probably be powered by a fusion reaction? or maybe they could use sound to power it up? i dont think this will ever happen anyway... but if it does you will need enormous amounts of energy