Physical Science parallel universes

Discussion in 'Physical Science' started by JcMinJapan, Nov 9, 2004.

  1. JcMinJapan

    JcMinJapan Premium Member

    I worte this on ATS, but would like to discuss it here. This deals with parallel universes and the possibilites. we will be touching ont his during the Time Travel research. I would like to know your ideas on this and the experiment that is added in there. For you Science Fair buff, then this will be a fun experiment as well.

    Dimensions... That is part of Time Travel possibly. You have to look at the arrow of time. Time the work and seconds were created by us, but the principal of time is there. Example: You can break and egg, but can you unbreak an egg? Is is possible to unbreak an egg? Well, the answer is yes. If everything was reversed, then you could unbreak the egg, but entropy says that it is basically impossible. So, off of this assumption, there is time and it is moving in a direction.

    One of the theories on different dimensions and time is that we are stuck in this fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a second. Now, there is another reality that is just behind that and and infinity of them before and after that. Each stuck in their own fraction of a fraction of a second. Now, a theory on time travel is that if you could change times, you would actually be in a dimension on that time. Well, things could be done differently. The universe could be the same with only minor change or completely different. It would all depend on the choices each one of us makes in each fraction of a second. Just like now, I could decide to go and move or to study something else. What if I did it in this past fraction of a second in a different reality? Well, then things would be different. So, basically every second offers one to change something, so depending on each dimensions, things could change or not.

    Brian Green who wrote The Fabric of the Cosmos bring up an experiment that he feels is evidence of a parallel universe. You can even do this at home with just a red laser pointer, a pin, and a piece of paper. The book also explains why he feels that way. I will attempt to tell a bit here, but I would recommend the book as it is great for the non-scientific community.
    I am not sure where I got these instructions below as I got them a very long time ago and have had them on my computer for an experiment that I did before. But, I will put them here and if anyone has seen this, kindly let me know who wrote it and I will add the correct "who wrote this" for them.

  2. tablet

    tablet Premium Member

    I wish I know more about this to ask better question. But anyway, let's get back to the "unbreaking the egg". (dam, my english. I don't fully understood what you said, I hope I get this correctly. I'm a visual learner... soo.. :D)


    That's the diagram I'm going to use. Suppose there's 3 universe. (u1, u2, u3). And 4 minutes (that's how long each one last, then the universe die).

    Suppose that I've chosen universe 3 (highlighted green) I decided to break an egg in that universe. IF I decided not to break an egg, then I would end up in either u1 or u2. But in this case I broke the egg at the start (first minute). Thus the consequence is carry on to u3.

    As I moved toward the universe I'm in I decided to unbreak the egg at 3 minutes. But to do that I have to travel back to u1 or u2 and landed on the same minutes that I'm at in u3??

    Is that what this is all about?
  3. JcMinJapan

    JcMinJapan Premium Member

    Ok, think of a loaf of bread sliced into many slices. Ok, Our time is in one slice. We are moving with Time Arrow. The unbreaking an egg cannot happen, because we are stuck in this time and time only goes forward. Physically, it is possible to unbreak an egg, but the chances of it happening are too great for it to really happen. So, that scenario shows that time is moving in one direction. If time moved in the reverse direction, then we could easily unbreak an egg. But, we cannot and we cannot undo things. So, that example only shows that time moves forward. Ok, you have 10 slices... So, there are 10 of you, one in each slice. Now, in this slice you broke the egg by dropping it. In the one before, you also broke the egg, but this time you threw it in the air. The one before that, maybe you ate the egg and did not drop it. Maybe the one before, you do not even care about physics. Maybe the one before you tried a different experiment. So, each slice could be a different scenario or maybe some happened the same.

    Maybe in one slice you decided to be a physicist in your life, maybe one you are a pilot, maybe one you are arrested..... All scenarios of anything are played out. It just depends on that you choose each fraction of a second. Maybe you only decide the same things a few seconds later or earlier. You never know.

    So, in this scenario, we cannot travel in time, because time is always moving forward. There is not forward or backward, there is only now. Now, we could go back to an earlier time, but we would be in a different slice of time. Which means that the world could be the same or drastically different. It all depends on the choices people make and how much they deviated from this slices choices. So, you would go back in time, but you would be in a different dimension. So, you would not be able to come back to now though. well, you could, but you would have to be very lucky. the reason is that we are talking fractions os a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a second. Worse than finding a needle in a haystack.

    That is the concept.
  4. Zsandmann

    Zsandmann Premium Member

    I personally dont buy into times arrow. I think time is concocted by the brain so that series of events make sense to us.

    I first read about the above experiment in Micheal Crichtons "Timeline." The book not the horrid movie. I tried it and it does indeed work. I am inclined to agree however with the sceptics that the effect is nothing more than some force interacting with the photons that we are currently unaware of.

    And last point. Why does times arrow (if it exists) have to be the same in every multiverse. I hate to go to TV on this but there was an episode of Sliders where they went to a world where times arrow was backwards, very weird. OK so having defended and denied two arguments with a book and a TV show I rest my case. :)
  5. tablet

    tablet Premium Member

    Suppose you're standing in the center of a room. You're facing North. And it has a windows. You're looking at it. West, South and East all have the same windows or different if you will.

    Now, do this. Stand in the center of your room and look at North (you decide where North is). Look at the wall for 3 seconds. Then turn to West (just rotate your body). Now stop there.

    What did you just saw (North)?? Your mind is like a camera, it just capture the moment (every now). There is no TIME. There is no past. There is no future. Because when you think about the past or future, you're actually accessing your MEMORY, all the picture it took.

    This is getting too confusing. Headache, headache.
  6. JcMinJapan

    JcMinJapan Premium Member

    There is no NOW, there is only PAST

    Well, there is actually a theory that once Time reaches the end of the line (where ever that may be) then it will collapse back on itself, thus making time go backwards and thus everything happening in reverse. Watch the 3rd Season 1st Episode of what? Yes.. Red Dwarf called "Backwards". It covers this sort of well and you will die laughing. ;)

    Well, the brain can play tricks on us. But, I do not think that the events happen out of order and my brain just puts them in a right order. The egg falls downwards. the egg starts to impact the floor, the force on the shell starts to break the egg, the contents inside arepressed downwards, the egg starts to crack, the contents are now being pushed upwards from the force on the floor, the egg shell starts to break into smaller pieces depending on the force on the floor, the contents splatter upwards only to come to a rest on the floor and finally stop. Now, it happens in this direction, you do not see this happen in any other order. Our camera take pictures of this and there are frames. The frames are in this order. They are not out of order. So, unless the frames from the film are being viewed out of order by our brain, then it happens in this order. So, I cannot agree with you that the brain puts things in order. If that, then nothing would really be real.

    Tablet, no, there is not really a now. (I will explain below) Things happen in an order and they go towards one direction. You have to not think about time as seconds and minutes. You actually never see, smell, hear, touch now if you want to go to that idea. There is actually not a now, but only a past. Bring this up with your brother. It takes a few fractions of a milisecond for light to reach your eyes, the brain to process the light and the brain to create the picture for you to see. Sound is even slower, your sense of touch is controlled by the brain and has to process pain, cool, etc. On a Macroscale... If the sun exploded, we would still see our perfect sun for 18 minutes after it already happened. If the Moon broke apart, we would still see a perfeect moon for about 6 minutes I think. The same thing with everything, but being next to each other, this is speeded up ALOT. But, the fact is, everything that you see is only the past. You can never see NOW. So, the concept of no future to me is not correct. We can only see things already done. With film, we can capture them and place them in an order, the film does not lie and does not really change anything or any order. The egg breaks, the tree grows. Things happen in a direction.
  7. JcMinJapan

    JcMinJapan Premium Member

    Another thought came into my mind while I was on the train to work. Ok, to prove that we do not see in real time, here is a perfect example. The human eye only sees about 50 frames per second the brain only needs to process 15-18 frames per second to be fooled into the perception of motion instead of seperate images. So, if we take a camera that can see 1000 frames per second and a gun. We have a friend fire the gun as we watch from the side. Now, what would you see? Probably just a blurr if anything. You have the camera at the same angle and it has traced the full path. So, as you can see, we cannot percieve NOW or we would be able to see the whole path of the bullet. Now, the camera is quicker at processing the image than our brain, so it can do 1000 frames per second. But, it still takes time for the light and the electronics to pick it up and process it. So, essentially, the Camera is not seeing in real time either, just a bit better than us.
  8. tablet

    tablet Premium Member

    Ok Ok. That's it for me. My brain is going nut!! :lol:

    ::Well, the brain can play tricks on us. But, I do not think that the events happen out of order and my brain just puts them in a right order.

    What about our vision? It's inverted!

    ::The egg falls downwards
    I say it goes upward!! :0

    Is your brain up or down? How can you tell?

    :: the egg starts to crack, the contents are now being pushed upwards from the force on the floor, the egg shell starts to break into smaller pieces depending on the force on the floor, the contents splatter upwards only to come to a rest on the floor and finally stop.

    What if that is a natural process, an instinct that occure during the "now"?

    I'm going to bring up "Time" or "Location".

    Could there be just one eternal "now"? Have you ever done something in any place and time other than the present("now")? IF you broke the egg, you're actually doing in at present, NOW. This "now" we're living in. But at different Location!

    (now I don't know where I stand on this issue. I'll play both side)
  9. oddtodd

    oddtodd Premium Member

    I saw a Feynman diagram that describes a particle "at this moment" as being the result of an interaction of a past and a future particle .

    Nano seonds away from each other , giving their waves off in different directions with a result of observation on "our time frame"

    I find the idea of superposition very interesting ... hope I am using the right term there will look it up ....basically that everything that can happen "does in fact happen" until we make an observation and kill all other happenings except our own . making our universe the only one we will ever be able to prove to exist ... Think this folds into Heisenburg thought experiments as well ... Poor kitty ...
  10. tablet

    tablet Premium Member

    Hmmm...Let's see.

    If you go into nature and look at things, there's nowhere that it say "This is the past" or "This is the Present" or "This is the future."

    We seems to be thinking about past because we have "memory". And we seems to be thinking about the future because we have "imagination."
  11. Zsandmann

    Zsandmann Premium Member

    Two different things there Odd, Schrodiger (sp?) did the cat experiments. Heisenberg created the uncertainty principle that simply put implies that electrons move so fast that you cant predict where they are at any given moment. Instead electrons should be viewed as a cloud around the nucleus with a small probability that an electron will be at a given position at a given time.
  12. oddtodd

    oddtodd Premium Member

    Got my Krauts confused !

    My point was that until the cat was observed , it was both alive and dead . It was an observation that was needed to colapse the "multiverse" of the wave function that describes the un-observed state of the cat .
  13. AD5673

    AD5673 Member

    it is impossible to unbreak an egg because you would have to travel back in time, it isnt possible to travel back in time..yet, but i doubt it will ever happen. The U1, U2, U3 thing i think is correct. If u decided to fry that egg (pretend) you might have ended up in U1, if u decided not to break that egg, but leave it, you wouldve eneded up in U2, and if you did brake that egg you nd up in U3, which is the case for you. There another decision to every decision you make, which would change time, like if the japanese didnt attack pearl harbor, things would be different, no one knows how though because it never happend. If the japanese declared war instead of a sruprise attack, things would also be different, also no one knows how, and the japanese did attack pearl harbor without warning and heres the result we know it. So if it went the other way it would possibly be another dimension. You cant change it because traveling back in time isnt possible. who agrees? lol
  14. /Future Corpse/

    /Future Corpse/ Premium Member

    I just don't buy into the concept of infinite universes because I can not believe that there is infinite energy. Perhaps more then we could ever hope to comprehend, but not infinite.
  15. AD5673

    AD5673 Member

    every universe would have its own energy like ours does... maybe there isnt an infinite amount? just dimensions in one universe?
  16. TrueBlue5

    TrueBlue5 New Member

    Brian Greene's work , The Elegant Universe, although brilliant, is slightly out of date. The newest accepted version of string theory - the new basis for parallel universes - is that the strings are actually part of a complex membrane.

    String theory was established to bring together the Quantum Physics and Relativity theories. Anyone working in the fields of either theory is aware that if one is correct, the other must be wrong.

    Now with the latest version of string theory (just a few years old), this theory explains the relationship between QP and R.

    The birth of the universe is therein explained, in that two parallel universes "rubbed against" each until one ruptured, creating the Big Bang. Theologists accept this as readily as scientists in that intelligent design (the Creator) is implied in the theory.

    Internet searches on this topic are difficult because it's difficult to grasp. One basic explanation until recently was at but apparently that has been slimmed down to just the most basic explanation of relativity. But it does mention parallel universes.

    I believe Brian Greene's work is an excellent reference, but it needs to be updated.
  17. JcMinJapan

    JcMinJapan Premium Member

    Parts of this thread got off topic a bit and have been merged into BIOLOGY: Cells and Memory It is a coog topic and very interesting, so please click on the link and discuss it more in there.

  18. JcMinJapan

    JcMinJapan Premium Member

    Well, I lean towrds time slice theory. Since we are always stuck in the NOW and only experience the past, the past cannot be changed. Hmmm... going into philosphy now? :lol: this thread will lead to tons of off topic threads... ha ha Basically, we are in now. We cannot escape NOW. Technically, an egg CAN be unbroken. Just entropy is so high that it is improbable and basically impossible, but not purely impossible. But, if we go to the subatomic level, this is truly possible and strangest things do happen.

    Now, back to dimensions... We are in now, the inescapable NOW. We see at the speed of light and how fast our brain processes it and makes the image, but we do not see NOW. We hear at the speed of sound and how fast it takes for the brain to process it and present it to us. The same with touch and the same with all senses. So, we live in NOW, but only experience the past. So, I contend that we are stuck in the NOW, if we leave NOW, the we go to ANOTHER NOW. That NOW will not be the same now that we are in, thus a different dimension is to be assumed. Well, that is JCMs Concept of the week. I would like to thank you for letting make stuff more confusing for you this week. Stay tuned for another "messed up concept" by JCM. Same bat time... Same bat channel!:bnghd:
  19. Iggy

    Iggy Premium Member

    Is it possible that when the four holes are made and the laser is shown through all four holes at the same time, the resulting combination of the placement of the four holes (not possible for all four to be in the exact center of the laser at the same time) and the laser shining through them, makes four bent beams that don't reform, but cross each other at such an angle that it causes the "Shadow Slits" to form?

    And where the shadow slits form is according to where the paper is positioned within the laser beam as well as the individual difference is between the four tiny pin holes, thus individual results would vary. It would be interestilng to do an experiment where more than one person does the same thing and records on paper just where their shadow slits formed and exactly how far away from the wall and paper the laser is? This could tell us a lot. I am going to get several lasers and set this up several ways. I will get back to you with the results asap. It may be till next weekend before I can get back with you.

    ps... I believe that maybe with this experiment, that one may be detecting something, but not a fully parallel universe. The lasers would have to be at a ninety degree angle to each other. (I keep seeing rule of thumb here for some reason) Please let me know if I am wrong... ;)
  20. Iggy

    Iggy Premium Member

    Oh, something else that came to mind...

    Would the type of paper used make a difference in how the light splits? For instance, dark paper and white paper, or white paper with ink soaked around the four holes make a difference? Something to experiment on maybe...