# Physical Science [Help] Perpetual Motion Machine

Discussion in 'Physical Science' started by Icewolf, Apr 4, 2005.

1. ### IcewolfPremium Member

Does anyone have simple instructions for a novice (with no equipment) to build a perpetual motion machine, My teacher wants me to do a bit of research into entrpy (as shown in the physics section) but i would love to build this and show how it follows the laws of thermodynamics.

- Ice -

2. ### JcMinJapanPremium Member

Well, there is no such thing as a perpetual motion machine. It violates the First Law of Thermodynamics and the Second Law of Thermodynamics. Even the US Patent Office will give a special warning to people that try to patent one.

The US Patent Office says that it is an impossibility and they will only change their mind with a WORKING model of the device. They also let someone know that their fees are non-returnable.

No, I would guess that the closest thing you could use would be with magnets. Now, you may want to study about Nicola Tesla. He was an amazing man and much of his research has gone missing, but he did say that he devised a free energy machine.

Hope that this helps a bit.

3. ### IcewolfPremium Member

I know a Flywheel isn't a perpetual motion machine but I think it's quite close, any idea's how to make one? Would it be possible to make any other device which could display the properties of Thermodynamics?

P.S I have no fanc eqipment but I can get some stuff from school.

4. ### ZsandmannPremium Member

I generator wheel with canisters of gas will make a 'free energy machine'. You just get some of those small propane tanks from a camping store, build a wheel to mount them on, then make the wheel spin on a pivot like a wheel. On the top get a heat lamp and focus it on where the top canister will be and put a trough of water under the bottom, so as the gas canister on top warms, the gas expands and as the gas on bottom hits the water it cools and shrinks, supposedly this will spin the wheel and power a generator as long as the heat source and water remain.

5. ### bluePremium Member

there is a heat pump that is quite close to one it consists of 2 cylinders connected one cylander is cold and the other hot the thermal action between the two move a piston I cant recall its name - but will try and look it up 4 u on the net- there was another device constructed in ww2 by an austrian ( oscar schluberger-sp?) called an implosion turbine that some claim was a perp. mach., anti gravity device, and in a strange tie in to the anti g. was a time machine if one could get it to spin fast enough. It would be alittle bit harder to construct, and i have read is somewot danguourous to operate as the high speeds can cause it to self destruct if any defects exist. but it does look good in theory or maybe in styrofoam.

6. ### bluePremium Member

ok- so make that viktor schauberger

7. ### bluePremium Member

or u could try one made by a norwegian artist by the name of finsrud- called the finsrud perp. motion mach.

8. ### GoneFissionPremium Member

I believe you are referring to a Stirling engine, which is an external-compustion engine that can operate at higher efficiencies than a typical internal-combustion engine (the ideal Sirling Cycle is the Carnot cycle, which is the theoretical limit for a process operating between two temperatures - still far from perpetual motion).

There are some neat demo kits available for fairly cheap that operate, for instance, off the heat from a coffee cup.

http://travel.howstuffworks.com/stirling-engine.htm
http://www.stirlingengine.com/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stirling_engine

[Edited on 4-5-2005 by GoneFission]

9. ### IcewolfPremium Member

yeah but anything I could build easily to demonstrate entropy (and any other related topics)?

10. ### ZsandmannPremium Member

In my Freshamn chem class, we used an insulated device, a coffee cup inside an igloo cooler to demonstrate entorpy. If you put the coffe in the cooler, then put a probe themometer in it, and run the cord out of the cooler, then shut the lip and tape it shut, you still see a decrease in the coffees temperature. The heat loss fro mthe insulated system is entropy. TADA!

11. ### GoneFissionPremium Member

Two very simple demonstrations of increasing entropy:

Put an ice cube on the counter. It melts, hence increasing disorder. To go even further, boil the water.

Even better: Put a couple drops of ink into a glass of water (you might have to give it a stir). The ink molecules get dispersed throughout the water. Now try to imagine the ink molecules starting dispersed like that and collecting into drops. The probability of that happening is probably up there with the probability of a person quantum tunneling through a wall.

Here are a couple neat movies showing processes that have a large increase of entropy in reverse (hence showing a decrease in entropy).

12. ### JcMinJapanPremium Member

Easy demonstration of Entropy.... Ok, you clean your room.... A week later it is now in a state of disorder. Then you clean it again and again it goes to a state of disorder....... Entropy can be seen anywhere.... ha ha ha

13. ### IcewolfPremium Member

you're implying that my room is untidy. . .
*searches for the cameras*

14. ### bluePremium Member

sterling engine! exactly! and thats an entropy in itself- check out some old mr wizard shows- they will have a demo u can whip up on the cheap

15. ### Waxy cheesecakePremium Member

My dad made a "purpetual motion machine" with magnets. Sorry, I can't tell you how to make it cause with a little adjusting, it might just work. When my dad built it last, it didn't quite work, but it did spin for a good 5-7 minutes.

16. ### JcMinJapanPremium Member

Well, a magnetic device technically could not be considered a perpetual motion machine. The reason is ... is that it is using the magnetic power for propulsion of the object or device. But, slowly the magnetic power will decrease and stop functioning at all. Though this probably will not happen in one persons lifetime, but it will eventually happen. So, technically it is not..... ok, so I stated technically ha ha

Ok, now here is a device that is simple to make and will increase the speed of ball bearings to make them shoot.

Now, what if you took that concept and adapted it a bit. Say you make a circular track and use only 1 ball, then make a mechanism that will move the magnet out of the balls path after it has attracted the ball enough to propell it past and thus the next magnet inline will start to attract the ball when it gets close enough and then move out of the way after it has attracted it enough to send it past to the next one? This way, the magnets will keep attracting the ball.

The hard part will be to create a sensor that will be able to check the magnetism level or even the speed of the ball to trigger the movement of the magnet out of the way of the ball..... Maybe trip wires that will swivel the magetic around as not to attract the ball.

Now, if you were able to get a magnet with an all North polarity and the get two magnets(1 north and 1 south), a south oriented magnet would attract the ball bearing, then once fast enough the magnet would move out of the way, you could then have a northern polarity magnet at an angle pointing towards the direction the ball bearing was passing to start propelling it away from the location, while the next Southern Magnet was attracting the bearing. Keep this process going in a circle and it should work ok.

Now, if you did not want to have something circlular, but a pipe style.. you use the same idea with the magnetic bearing. but, at each end you have a different mechanism. The ball bearing would be attracted to one end of the tube; the speed would increase as it gets closer to the southern manget. You have a thin piece of ceramic or aluminum in front of the southern magnet with a little space to allow the northern magnet to fit. Once the ball hits the thin metal, the northern magnet sill drop thus repelling the northern magnetic ball bearing. On the propelling of the bearing back, the northern maget will rise and not affect the ball bearing till the next crash. You have this at both ends and technically, the ball bearing sould be going back and forth until the magnetism wears out. If you use rare earth magnets, that should be a few thousand years.... ha ha ha ha

Just some thoughts and ideas... Magnets have always interested me. I may try this later.... But, in my mind, it should work... Technically that is... ha ha

17. ### bluePremium Member

ala the finsrud perp. motion machine

18. ### sabPremium Member

The second law of thermodynamics says that energy of all kinds in our material world disperses or spreads out if it is not hindered from doing so. Entropy is the quantitative measure of that kind of spontaneous process: how much energy has flowed from being localized to becoming more widely spread out (at a specific temperature).