Sociology Freedom

Discussion in 'Sociology' started by tablet, Feb 17, 2005.

  1. tablet

    tablet Premium Member

    Is not something you are borned wiith. It's not a privilege (I hope I use that word correctly). Such a big word - privilege.

    Freedom is something you have to fight for. The previous generation fought for our freedom now that they're passing away, it's our turn to fight for the next generation. IF we lose this one, the next generation will not know what Freedom is.
     
  2. Ikebana

    Ikebana Member

    Are you in America? Just wondering if that was what you meant when you said the 'previous' generation and 'our' country. Anyway either way, if it is America then I think it depends on which side of the coin the previous generations were on. There were of course the original inhabitants who lived in this country for thousands of years, before becoming occupied by foreign explorers. Natives from this county wound up on forced marches, their food supplies depleted, their religions removed from their descendents by forced education in religious school, not even allowed to use their own given names etc. They were victims of attempted ethnic cleansings. None of the treaties given to them have been enforced. Most were driven out of their habitats where they had survived peacefully for centuries and then deposited upon the worst of the worst possible lands in this country. In that regard, they probably believe that their previous generations did indeed fight to their last breath to keep the freedoms they had all along. Of course other battles fought in foreign countries by the 'new' American inhabitants were generally fought for the freedom of the people in those other countries, etc. Guess it just depends who one's own 'previous' generations actually were. Native Indians had all the freedoms in the world before becoming occupied by Europeans, where their 'freedoms' were certainly taken away, then freedoms of a different kind evolved after that...the kind where you now have the freedoms to get up (or not) at five a.m. and get off to work, spend the day working for one of the top companies in the business world (or not), making billions for the owners of that company, and you get a paycheck at the end of each week and have the freedom to purchase automobiles that cost over ten thousand times more than it cost to make it, and groceries that are for the most part irradiated, hot housed, or hybrid, with all the great new ingredients such as nitrites and nitrates, dyes, and others to keep your food 'fresh' (lol) so you can eat it, get little or no nutritional value from most of it, and then you also have the freedom to choose any doctor you want (or not) to treat all the health problems you encounter from the food supply, etc. Then, if you don't like that J O B that you have, you also have the freedom to give notice and quit, find another job in another big business with a grand title and even maybe more money until you have every single thing you need and more in this country. Not every country gets to boast about those freedoms, that is true. Freedom, yes, freedom is a very important. I absolutely agree. Privilege? Yup that's a very big word, I agree with that as well. Along with the privilege of having freedom, one also has the responsibility to get all the facts and knowledge and truths about how freedom is gained and how it is kept.
     
  3. Bleys

    Bleys Phoenix Takes Flight Staff Member

    :no:

    I don't think there is a single nation or group of peoples that, at one time, hasn't been the persecuted or the persecutor. What needs to be asked - is have we learned from those mistakes and are we ready to move forward together?

    As for freedom itself - I agree with tablet - freedom should be protected at almost any cost. Seth and I are finally getting the chance to visit Pearl Harbor in a few weeks. One of the things we are looking most forward to is meeting with some of the men who were there. We are losing so many of our WWII veterans and so many of their stories remain untold. I wish more was being done to preserve them for future generations to learn from.

    B.
     
  4. JcMinJapan

    JcMinJapan Premium Member

    Pearl Harbor is a nice trip and really makes people think about what war really does to people. Living in Japan has also provided me the luxury to see the Japanese side of this event as well. It is so amazing that jsut sitting on the train, I have had Japanese people apologize for Pearl Harbour. It has happened not just once or twice, but I would say over a dozen times and probably alot more. Very interesting indeed and really threw me off the first few times it happened.

    One trip that I thought would be interesting was the A-Bomb museum in Hiroshima, Japan. I consider myself a pretty cool person that does not get upset by much, but I must say that I had tears in my eyes when I saw the pictures and items that were there. The museum I would say is the ultimate bringing the horror of war right to your face.
    The museum is dedicated to making this world a nuclear free world. I would recommend the trip to everyone.

    BTW: Did you know that Japanese send delegates to Pearl Harbour every year for the ceremony for Pearl Harbour? Did you know that America refuses each year to send delegates to Hiroshima during their ceremony. Actually Japan sends invitations to delegates of every country that owns Nuclear Weapons..... Only Russia and France send delegates, then rest refuse.

    What a dream to have a peaceful world where we all get along and truly try to care for one another.
     
  5. bodebliss

    bodebliss The Zoc-La of Kromm-B Premium Member

  6. invader_chris

    invader_chris Member

    Freedom is earned by fighting for what you believe in, and what you think is right. The way I see it is that we have very little freedom, especially in the United States.
     
  7. Young William

    Young William Premium Member

    And there's a young kid from Pittsburg sitting in the Nation of Iraq, sleeping with caution, waking up to uncertanty, and counting the days until his or her relaease to plan the next stage of their life.
     
  8. Ikebana

    Ikebana Member

    My father was at Pearl Harbor too. I heard the stories growing up. He told it from both points of view, from both sides. My father was one of the most fair men I have EVER met. He knew what freedom was. So did ALL the men who fought. I think the meaning of freedom is not exactly the same for those who have actually been in war and for those who sit at home and support the ones who are really there. Those who do not go can only 'imagine' or fantasize what it is like in a war zone. Those who are there 'know' what it is like.
     
  9. bodebliss

    bodebliss The Zoc-La of Kromm-B Premium Member

    Ha Ha and I have all the freedom I want.
     
  10. bodebliss

    bodebliss The Zoc-La of Kromm-B Premium Member

    That's ok. It will give them something to tell their grandkids if they survive.

    Aye, fight and you may die. Run and you'll live -- at least a while. And dying in your beds many years from now, would you be willing to trade all the days from this day to that for one chance, just one chance to come back here and tell our enemies that they may take our lives, but they'll never take... our freedom!

    nytka.org - This website is for sale! - nytka Resources and Information.

    It's a choice, one you have not made yet.
    Men fight and die often to save their buddies from the same. You'd have to be there to understand my words.
     
  11. mscbkc070904

    mscbkc070904 Premium Member

    Nothing about War is nice to see or found as appealing. Alot fo countries, that we hardly hear about have problems where they want freedoms and privileges but not allowed it and therefore you have rebel groups trying to overthrow, but that is not for every country. Some of those have rebel forces that are purely criminal or overlords wanting to establish their own country for wealth and careless about the people, basically enslave them thru fear and terror (I am talking about Africa mostly).

    But like WWII, alot of that is missing, but dont forget Korean Vets too, they saw the ugliness of war as well. My grandfather was in that war, his brother served in WWII and Korea. Korean War was ugly, my grandfather to this day HATES the cold, cause he had to lay inwell below freezing temps day and night, forced marches for 20-30 miles to go and fight that night for another 12 hrs -3 days.

    One day, there will be tons and tons of info comprised of WWII vets stories...but for alot of them that never told their stories...the best hting you can do if you meet one is, first ask permission, but record the story via recording device. And turn that over, if not for yourself, to a historian buff to implement it into the archives. Overall you giving that person a chance to tell their story and give them the credit they deserve by having their names mentioned, contributing a piece of history for the future to hear or read about.

    I plan soon once I have things in order to have my grandfather and his friends (some have passed on now) sit down and tell stories and record it by video so I can document this and one day either comprise a book of the stories or turn it over to a history buff. Just a thought to help preserve those untold stories.
     
  12. bodebliss

    bodebliss The Zoc-La of Kromm-B Premium Member

    They have archival sites where you or they can contribute their recollections.

    Look around.
     
  13. CyberKat6

    CyberKat6 New Member

    I'm not so sure about that. Why does there need to be war, violence, and death in order to insure our freedom. Who gives one person or persons the right to dictate to us what we do, how and when we do it, as long as we are not infringing on the safety of another person's person or property?:yes:
     
  14. bodebliss

    bodebliss The Zoc-La of Kromm-B Premium Member

    Here let me give you King Henry V's perspective:

    St.Crispian's Day : October 25th

    The speech is a parody of the way warrior-kings of the period spoke to their men before battle by William Shakespeare, but I think it is an accurate view of how these events are viewed by the survivors.

    October 25, 1415 was the date upon which the Battle of Agincourt was fought. The English outnumbered 5 to 1 by the French. The English won.
     
  15. bodebliss

    bodebliss The Zoc-La of Kromm-B Premium Member

    Naivety of the real world won't save you. Your luck is hundreds of thousands of people have already died for your Liberty. Lucky you, because you would just give it away w/o a fight.

    W/O laws and police to enforce them, people would just come and take all you have, and possibly kill you.

    Without an armed force even Canada would attack the U.S.
     
  16. badkitty

    badkitty Member

    "The average age of the world's greatest civilizations from the beginning of history, has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, these nations always progressed through the following sequence:

    From bondage to spiritual faith;
    From spiritual faith to great courage;
    From courage to liberty;
    From liberty to abundance ;
    From abundance to complacency;
    From complacency to apathy,
    From apathy to dependence,
    From dependence back into bondage."

    Alexander Tyler – Scottish history professor, University of Edinburgh, 1787

    Where is your country in this cycle? I fear the US is currently moving from apathy to dependence. One step away from bondage and loss of the freedom so many died to attain.
     
  17. bodebliss

    bodebliss The Zoc-La of Kromm-B Premium Member

    From courage to liberty;


    We're recycling this one right now!

    Only slight change : from courage to more liberty;

    If Americans love one thing, it would be MORE.
     
  18. bodebliss

    bodebliss The Zoc-La of Kromm-B Premium Member

    Badkitty,
    There is a new paradigm afoot we are laying the ground floor of it. Can you discern the national-nonnational regime that is slowly falling in place here on planet Merth. The future of citizenship and it's meaning will change. You are not seeing we will soon have a great leap in technology that will destroy everything you know.

    Go to my site and get a wiff of the demise of everything you know.
     
  19. overrocked

    overrocked Premium Member

    ? Thousands have died for liberty and freedom?

    Like the Iraqi's trying to hold on to their own country while occupied?- while we steal money from them and our own corruption goes unpunished. (CSPAN- democratic committee on unspecified amount of funds disappearing)

    sounds like history repeating itself- liberation from Britain and tyranny. Which I believe is the only war we needed to fight. (The civil war was not really over slavery)

    WW1 and WW2 - in what way - other than our navy base in Pearl Harbor was attacked- was our freedom or liberty threatened? Did I miss something? Were they going to take our freedom away? Were they going to invade America?

    Korea? Vietnam? Were they going to invade America? and take away our freedom?

    The only thing I see that is taking away our freedom and liberty- is the police state we have already become. In my city- racial profiling is allowed and you can be pulled over and searched simply by 'being' profiled. Look it up if you don't believe me. (AZ state law)

    How do you keep people from breaking THE laws? More police and jails or a better constructed society?

    If it sounds like I am a dissenter- it is only because I care- a TRUE patriot (with 3 draft age kids who are probably going to be security guards for the NWO and the oil pipelines around the world)
     
  20. bodebliss

    bodebliss The Zoc-La of Kromm-B Premium Member

    My grandfather fought in WWI, My father WWII and Korea, I served 4 years, My daughter is in now. My grandad, and dad never quibbled about the price paid. Why should I?

    China's Shame

    This got rave reviews from Congress.