Metaphysics Emotion against reason - Unconditional Love

Discussion in 'Metaphysics' started by Icewolf, Jan 1, 2005.

  1. Icewolf

    Icewolf Premium Member

    Unconditional love is important in life, it helps make judgments which will not contradict logic. Here is a story I found which shows that if we allow emotion to rule our judgement serious problems can occur.
    (sorry if the jedi stuff gets in the way, ignore the bits about the code and it still makes sense)

    Jance entered the cannibal Colicoids hut. She had found out that it was these people who had eaten her companion. She told them that she had come to trade. Her starship had been badly damaged and she needed new parts. After hours of negotiating she acquired the parts she needed and returned to her ship.

    When she returned home she was asked why she bargained with the beings for the starship components after they had eaten her companion; she responded: "Because eating the flesh of sentient beings is not forbidden by the Jedi Code-but to the Colicoids, not eating the flesh of sentient beings is considered a sign of insanity."

    This Jedi recognized that punishing the Colicoids for following their nature would be acting out of emotion and ignorance. Similarly, not procuring a badly needed engine part would have been punishing herself out of guilt.
  2. Bleys

    Bleys Phoenix Takes Flight Staff Member

    I see the logic in the story - it would just be difficult for me to set aside emotion. Especially when the emotion is brought about by the loss of a companion. That aside - I probably would have done the same if I needed the part.

    However, sometimes I think an emotional response is underrated. Satisfaction, a sense of justice or closure can all result from an emotional response. Think about an ex-lover you told off or the child molester who gets a little of his own in prison or a good crying jag. There is a certain sense of relief and finality to emotion at times that I believe is necessary to keep one's sanity.

  3. bodebliss

    bodebliss The Zoc-La of Kromm-B Premium Member

    Hi Icewolf,
    Well that's a story, but if there were real Jedi in a real galaxy far, far away and long, long ago, I'm sure she would have slew all the Colicoids, burned their village, and once in space nuked the place where it once stood.
  4. tablet

    tablet Premium Member

    What about Emotion AFTER reason? Get your part for the ship. Once everything is working fine come back for revenge!
  5. Young William

    Young William Premium Member

    Excellent post! It's one of life's harsh lessons. It also makes me wonder how ineffective the immaterial has become in the balancing the judgemnent of today's public policy formation.
  6. Icewolf

    Icewolf Premium Member

    thankyou, i see you are a new member, If I haven't said so already, "Welcome to ID"
  7. pineappleupsidedown

    pineappleupsidedown Premium Member

    Is this more about culture than emotion against reason?

    Thats what i thought when i first read it-respecting other cultures, even if it hurts you.

  8. Icewolf

    Icewolf Premium Member

    no, it's more, if they eat your friend, you should know that getting revenge could cost you more than you'd think, so you need to stop feeling emotional and start thinking.
  9. BlackGuardXIII

    BlackGuardXIII New Member

    Unconditional love is pure logic

    I agree that revenge would cost more than expected. In my experience, revenge has no +ve value. I still wish for it on some of the worst people, though.
    I am a sucker for emotions, but I agree that thinking is important. For me, love is more important than intellect.
  10. oortpower

    oortpower Member

    Why? What happens happens killing the Co-somethings wont help. You may want to but did they do something wrong, No! On the other hand if someone, lets call them Damin, just walked up and ate her companion. Damin is a normal (well sort-of)person, no religion that says he must, no bodily urge to eat, but he just does it for no reason killing him wouldn't be wrong. It would stop more of the same. Its just a big scale. Killing Damin might be murder on your hands but what if was going to kill others?
  11. Ikebana

    Ikebana Member

    Emotion against Reason? The story seemed reasonable enough since they were in "uncharted" territory (not their own "kind" so to speak) therefore the rules of ettiquette is different. Emotionally there is the loss of the friend...Reason would be get the parts and get the heck out of there because you just might be the next course!:brkdnc:
  12. Lost In Thought

    Lost In Thought New Member

    Love is but a fabrication of the mind,
    using the self-aware part of us to acheive the sub-consience's
    job- mating and offspring.

    love is nothing.
  13. Raideur

    Raideur Premium Member

    Well said, Lost in Thought.

    Emotions are one of the many ways we make decisions based on limited data. You could argue they fall into the same box as instincts, and they do act much in the way instincts do. Thus they seem like an evolved way for our instincts to overpower our now concious and self aware mind into performing basic survival.

    Love has no purpose, as he said, it is a method for your mind to overwhelm your logic into keeping you from leaving during child development. It serves no other purpose, and given enough concious effort, can be tamed and removed.
  14. bodebliss

    bodebliss The Zoc-La of Kromm-B Premium Member

    "Love has no purpose, as he said, it is a method for your mind to overwhelm your logic into keeping you from leaving during child development. It serves no other purpose, and given enough concious effort, can be tamed and removed. "

    Is it possible you were abandoned as a child, Raideur. Is that why your speech is bereft of love for your fellow human?
  15. Bleys

    Bleys Phoenix Takes Flight Staff Member

    I don't agree. Emotions can be expressed/manifested in times of complete understanding.

    Tamed and removed? I really had to look at that - because it is actually quite heartbreaking. The feeling that comes from an absolute expression of love - the selflessness, the joy you feel in seeing their happiness and the feeling that you can accomplish anything with that person by your side.

    What you see as a weakness to be overcome - I see as the singlest greatest gift imaginable.

  16. Raideur

    Raideur Premium Member

    Must you use the term "gift" if someone gave it to you...

    "Love" does serve no useful purpose, as it does not even perform a basic function like fear or curiousity.

    People can live without being "happy." It's simply a matter of life being without great happiness, nor great sorrow. Does it make us better to have good times, only to have equally bad times? I doubt it.

    You cannot say love is more happy than sad. Humans cannot be happy all the time. They will then be sad, crippled for a period. Useless.

    Its an evolutionary system designed to facilitate procreation and parent-child development. It is just like any other emotion in that it can be overridden by the concious mind. And if we deem it unneeded to our current situation, can repress it.

    Dont presume it is the single greatest thing in life, because it is not. It is simply going along with your primative desires.
  17. Bleys

    Bleys Phoenix Takes Flight Staff Member

    the term "gift" is quite adequate in the context i was using it. if you are unable to grasp that it is because you have never been fortunate enough to have been either on the receiving or giving end of such an expression.

    it actually does produce several measureable responses, physically and chemically. but more importantly it provides a sense of well-being and optimism that you get from no other emotion.

    why freakin' bother? personally, i've always preferred the roller coaster to the merry go round. great love, great heartache and always great hopes for what comes next.

    I can honestly say without a doubt that i more happy than sad always. I find joy in something every day.

    but why? why would you attempt to supress something as wonderful as love. i quote baz on this - the greatest thing you will ever do is to love and be loved in return.

    don't presume to know my mind. i am well educated, well traveled and have enjoyed some incredible experiences in my life......and not one of them means a thing if you don't have love.

    and as far as primitive desires - don't knock it tell you've tried it.................the same goes for love.

  18. pieman

    pieman Premium Member

    further to bleys good point regarding the purpose of love, i would like to add that if traits in an organism are no longer required then evolution disposes of them, as with the human tail, given that humans feel love strongly, obviously it has an important function.

    because you obviously cannot understand this function i will explain it to you, unconditional love is required in any organisim where procreation require's a large investment of resorces(sp) and time.for a vertibrate one of the most sucsessful evolutions seems to be a large brain,which humans have, however constraints of the womb and birth passage mean that offspring must be born underdeveloped and so we must continue to devote resources to them for a connsidderable period of time after birth,at least four or five years, which is rather inconvenient, so in order to develop as we have we need an incentive, or at least natural selection would obviously select against a geneology that did not have unconditional love as part of it's make up.

    although i agree it is possible to supress this part of ourselves the results are not worth thinking about, as you can see here, what happens to children without love
    so the question is not only why would you supress love, but "how could you"
  19. Raideur

    Raideur Premium Member

    What is the point of "love" if one chooses not to procreate.
    Im glad we have people who can look objectively at this instead of simply stating its the greatest thing since sliced bread and dismiss my pessimism.

    As many people have said before, its just an evolutionary system to benefit procreation. Its not a gift from the heavens or a gem of life.
  20. Mark

    Mark ♤♡◇♧ Staff Member

    And once again, I am compelled to ask,.. is there proof of this claim?

    It is suggested as cold hard fact, yet fully unsubstantiated as well.