Metaphysics Can you guys comprehed forever?

Discussion in 'Metaphysics' started by SASanator, Dec 5, 2004.

  1. SASanator

    SASanator New Member

    I used to be unable to comprehend that forever was an actual part of our universe just like 1+1=2, but recently (since starting my physics and maths a-levels) i have been doing alot of reading on the internet and such forth and can now actually comprehend it in my (simple) mind :D

    I was just wondering if you guys believed in forever, or wether you thought that there was some kind of circular motion of space and time.

    Like where does space end?
    is there even such a thing as time?
    or is it just relitivity?
    would time still pass if there was nothing in the universe at all?

    these are some really interesting discussion points that i think it would be interesting to hear peoples views on.
     
  2. tablet

    tablet Premium Member

    can now actually comprehend it in my (simple) mind
    Really? wow. I can't comprehend it. How did you come to comprehend it?
     
  3. elizabeth

    elizabeth New Member

    I don't think space ends. I think it continues forever.
    Time was invented by man as a measure of change.
    If there was nothing in the universe at all, it would be a void. There would be no change, therefore time would not exist.
     
  4. Juanita

    Juanita Member

    I think it is our individual perception. The concept of 'forever' to a child would be that of Grandpa and how old he is!

    But seriously, I haven't begun my study in math, out of fear of doing it by myself, so I can't comprehend where the numbers lead to.

    I am led to the quote by the Oracle on Revolutions (Matrix) - "Everything that has a beginning, has an end..." Well, if that were true, did God have a beginning? And if it did, then does that mean it will end? That's scary to think of for me.

    It is said in reincarnation that everyone you meet, know, have some relation to, is someone you already knew, were friends w/, or were related to, before. If we keep coming back, then we continue through eternity even after the state of enlightenment.

    In space, the heavenly bodies die only to form something new. A continuation of what was. It doesn't seem as though anything truely ceases to exist. Everything that is here now is part of something that once was.

    So, I guess I do see forever as being a circle in constant motion. Never remaining at what is - Ever flowing into what will be....
     
  5. SASanator

    SASanator New Member

    Ok i come to the conclusion that forever can be concluded by the excistence of nothing! :o

    Imagine you are in nothingness (now this is where it gets messy because if you are in nothingness it becomes something lol) but... if you are in nothing you can keep going through it forever but, also getting messy with it again using Einstein's theory of relitivity if you are the only thing in this nothingness it is impossible to move! so you might have to throw the conviniently placed tennis ball in your pocket away from you causing there to be some movement of the ball relitive to you or vice versa.

    However...

    Now this is where my knowlege is a little hazey! ok... if you throw the ball away from you due to gravity it will eventually return (I think) or does it escape your gravity cos i don't think it can i think it will eventually after a billion years or so return, but if it does escape this works aswell cos it will travel on forever! similarly using the theory that it will eventually return if you throw it with an infinate force (again i know i'm using a forever term to explain forever but its all i can think of at the moment) ok if you throw it with an infinate force it will go on forever.

    But... lol there is lots of howevers :p

    that rellys on Newtons laws of motion, which doesnt take it to account that things cant travel faster than the speed of light, but you can get the picture. And if you dissagree and you believe that objects will always return as they will reach their limit of distance from the source you can theorise that it would be possible to repeat the process an infinate number of times thus going on forever.

    Although...

    Then we have to take into account what time actually is and if there is some governing property that determines time and wether it is linear or relative and all sorts of other things.

    But all this sugests to me that forever is not just a cognitive value but a thing thats happening now lol if that makes sence! do ya get ma drift?

    I know i contradict myself alot there but i think it is necasarry lol, thats my excuse.
     
  6. pineappleupsidedown

    pineappleupsidedown Premium Member

    I think "forever" is a concept that exists in theory, but isnt practical in really life.

    Like communism

    ---pineapple
     
  7. SASanator

    SASanator New Member

    Elizabeth yes i agree that space continues forever although some people believe that if we travel in the same direction eventually we will end up in the same place as we started! they believe that space is circular, like draw a line on a piece of paper and make a tube out of it so the line forms a circle (here dont just think of space as the black thing in the sky, space is every where and things occupy it like the air is occupying the space between you and the screen).

    And yes time as in secconds and minutes was invented by man as a measure of change but surely time would still exist in a void even though there might be some funky things happening to it.

    Juinita lol i like the references to the matrix! I think you have some good points there, i believe that things that begin will end, it is an unavoidable eventuality, but you can put it off a while :D but is time regular circular motion that will, loosely speaking, restart at regular intervals or will it be determined by the factors in the factors in the universe at the time.

    God is an interesting subject, i beleive in God, and am not sure that there was a begining for God or not, I lean to not for purely selfish reasons because i think that we have a good thing going on and want it to remain.
     
  8. instar

    instar New Member

    Well circular space is theory and time is subjective, (ever sat for long in a waiting room?) so to me "forever" is until the DR comes out! lol
    Seriously its an odd concept, since we are finite, i dont see how you can comprehend forever, except as theory! The statement that nothing last forever is really a misnomer but its easier than saying every physical thing has a finite existance. Forever by definition means never ending , so if space is circular it is by definition forever!
     
  9. Juanita

    Juanita Member

    SASanator- If you want to theorize on the cycle 'restarting' itself, then I suppose you could speculate the Big Bang as being a restart.

    Since there is little known as to how and why, most of it is theory derived from specualtion.

    If life is continually forming from 'death', then that would be a form of a restart; Although I don't see it in that way. I simply see it as a continuation of whatever force originally set all this in motion.

    Back to "everything that has a beginning..." - Once again, no one can say for sure that before the Big Bang, there was nothing. Nothing as in heavenly bodies? It's hard to concieve that there was ever 'nothing' and that 'something' formed out of 'nothingness'. So what would the beginning be? The beginning of our known universe could have been an overlap or 'bleed-thru' from another level of existence. Our universe could've happened from a supermassive blackhole that tore into that fabric of 'space' and pushed out what was sucked into it from another universe - a parallel one; Giving birth to the physics we currently know.

    In that theory, it would be impossible to discover where the actual beginning was, and therefore, I see no end.
     
  10. Fitzpatrick

    Fitzpatrick Member

    Space does not end.
    Time is an illusion.
    We wouldent have an illusion of time if the universe didnet exist lol
     
  11. Mizar

    Mizar Premium Member

    I have been able to comprehend forever and eternity. Its scary . I sometimes black out entirely and go into a sort of trance.

    Try imagineing astronomical distances see here its also intresting and similar. IF you can truly visulize the universe its an awesome gift. What I mean is not just "know " you are on earth adn in space and in a galaxy and in a universe. Im talkign about wehn you look up at night you grasp the fact that the moon is X distance from earth and it is a real body in space not some orb in our sky. OR you see that the sun is just a really close bright star and that the otehr stars are. Yet again this is common knowldge but when it is known literalyl and you can grasp its full meaning its aweinspireing and amazing.

    here look at this

    http://ignorancedenied.com/viewthread.php?tid=868
     
  12. junior_smith

    junior_smith Premium Member

    space goes as far a time permits, eventually you would hit a spot where the big bang had not yet expanded to, but because of the time warp you would pretty much end up where you started.

    it's like taking a person who thinks the world is flat and getting him to walk in a staight line, he will propably end up in the place he started
     
  13. ZeroDeep

    ZeroDeep New Member

    What exactly is forver? Infinity, or Eternity?

    The two differ: Infinity has a start; for example:

    1........................................................

    Infinity starts from one, then goes on too "forever"

    Eternity has always been.

    Deep
     
  14. Juanita

    Juanita Member

    I don't see infinity as having a beginning.

    Maybe a start to our own, known universe...But more of a result from another.

    There seems to have always been 'something', and it has continued to grow and take on new forms. Ever changing and evolving.

    Both seem to regard an unlimited amount of time. Take away the time factor, and the 'beginning' becomes obsolete.
     
  15. SubVolitional

    SubVolitional Member

    Speaking of a beginning, can you percieve the world from before your birth?
     
  16. Ikebana

    Ikebana Member

    Can we Comprehend "forever"??? Yes, at this age, you betcha I can! Forever and ever and ever and ever and well on and on and on!
    :(
     
  17. Lastman

    Lastman New Member

    Can someone elaborate on the circular space theory? Is it based on the idea that our universe had a single starting point( Big Bang ) and radiates from that point. Taking into account that time is a measurable thing, wouldn't it stand that time, as well as matter and energy, would all radiate from this Galactic Central Point? If that's the case, then time could be finite. From the initial blast of creation, the expansion of our universe should slowly decrease, like ripples from a disturbance, until the impetus simply dies out. My information is more than a little rusty, haven't thought about any of this for a while now, but that' why I signed up, I guess.