Discussion in 'Metaphysics' started by tablet, Nov 13, 2004.
Well, now that Juan has started the fire. Then we shall talk about belief system.
Since you already started a thread w/ the idea I was already forming, I don't think it would be right to start another thread. So, I will post in yours my queries on this subject.
What is the difference between a belief and an opinion? Now, anyone can pick up their dictionary and state the obvious "meaning of the word as written by another person", but that's not what I'm looking for, here.
Why do we feel something to be true, (opinion or belief), and feel that another persons isn't real or ask them to prove their beliefs (or opinions)? What is it inside that makes us 'feel' that something is right when we can't find the actual evidence to prove to the others why we feel the way we do?
Even the hardest skeptic has a belief/opinion that he or she can't prove to the world - And this isn't saying that anyone should have to.
I'm just wondering what makes someone 'feel' that this is 'right', even w/out hardcore evidence, and what seperates that 'feeling' into a belief or an opinion?
Opinions and beliefs are merely oral expressions that do not require substance or truth.
Can they be accurate? Sure, but they don't have to be. That's whats so great about having an opinion or belief - anyone can have one. Anytime someone starts to reply with "now this is just my opinion" I know they are about to disagree with me but have no evidence to actual make their case.
At least that's my opinion on the subject LOL :sing:
But where does the 'feeling' come in?
Have you ever heard or read something that just 'clicked' inside of you, and no matter how hard you tried to convince another of how you felt and why you felt it, it just didn't 'click' for them?
I understand that upbringing and surroundings play a vital role, but mine are pretty far away from the environment and upbringing I had. I have no idea how to put some logic into those sensors w/in that tells everyone something different about 'what feels right'.
No, I have to admit I have never had one of those eureka moments that moved me to my core. Always wanted one mind you. I think I am destined to be one of those people who always wants to know "then what"
I think that's why organized religion was so unsatisfactory for me. I have waited for an epiphany my entire life that others seem to get at the drop of a hat.
I am curious about other people's opinions though - good question and subject for discussion.
I believe that both upbringing and environment has an affect on how your belief system is built. Belief system is primary opinion is secondary.
Without a belief system can you have an opinion?
Hmmmm. Never thought about it. Good one.
But wouldn't an opinion on something lead to a belief? If your opinion was fairly new because you came across something that struck a chord w/in you, and continued to pursue that opinion w/ some more research that increased your feeling of that opinion, wouldn't it then become a belief?
I think it does lead to a belief system somehow.
Your belief system affects how you see the world and alot of things you do are based on this belief system. To change someone's belief system means you are affecting how they see the world. I'm going to use an extreme example.
People in middle east believes that by killing themselve (bomb suicide) they will be closer to GOD. But you don't believe that because it does not fit with your current belief system. And for that, you say "It's wrong" which is your opinion which is based on your belief system.
IF your belief system is void on a certain topic then your opinion would most likely be "I don't know".
We are constantly affecting each other belief system like what I'm doing right now, IF everything I said make sense, then it will becomes part of your belief system and you will carry on this belief then later you will affect others as well.
And if everything you said make sense to me, then It will becomes/connect with my current belief system.
So to change a person view is to change his/her belief system which is very difficult by the way...
I think a belief is something that is very hard to do, like tablet said. An opinion is not as soild, with enough soild facts you can convince the person to change their opinion(unless they wont change it out of stubbornness)
I also agree with the idea that if your belief is void on a certain subject(i.e. Not leaning either way on an issue) that you would not have an opinion on that issue.
Yes, an unwavering belief system would be hard to 'change' - But if you could change it, does the old belief simply become an opinion?
My upbringing never hinted towards any kind of conspiracy. It was my opinion that there were many things being covered up that led me to reading about conspiracy related issues. My belief system came from that opinion as being more concrete to what I already felt.
I definately agree w/ what you say....My beliefs allow me to form opinions of other things - BUT - if you had no knowledge of something you just read, is it in your belief system that causes you to 'feel' whether or not that information is real to you?
But if you could change it, does the old belief simply become an opinion?
Suppose killing is bad, but then somehow your belief on that is being change (first you will suffer from this changes). Then you will come to accept that killing is good. The old system will be kick out because you've accepted the new system and your opinion for killing? We all should do it!
It was my opinion that there were many things being covered
I think you decided to explore conspiracy issue because you believe that there's no conspiracy (which was your upbringing) but then you see the world and hear rumour that oppose your current belief system that force you to explore it out of curiosity? and upon finding out the truth... your old system is being switch. This is only possible with open minded people.
if you had no knowledge of something you just read, is it in your belief system that causes you to 'feel' whether or not that information is real to you
This lead us to "Prioris" which I'm still pondering about it.
Your questions are though provoking. I'm still unsure of the answer myself, perhaps I'll continue to ponder.
Prioris - yes. I have heard of that only after I was affected by such. I will respond appropriately in that thread to that.
I am a very curious person by nature. Always have been. Mostly, I am stunned at the amount of people who aren't curious enough to explore their beliefs/opinions/both. I suppose it is because I have only an out-of-state brother to converse w/ on the many areas I explore. Imagine how glad I was to find these forums, yet, at the same time, I still see that many people have a belief system which doesn't allow them to grow and gain knowledge beyond what they 'feel' is right. But at least now, I have a few to converse w/, and I think this Philosophy forum should bring some open minded people out to explore what they think or feel.
I would never be able to prove that most of what I've found is the absolute truth, so it goes back to "what I feel" is the truth. Is that an opinion based on my beliefs, or my belief system based on the opinion that there is "more to the story"?
curious person by nature.
My belief is that IF you allows a child to explore his/her environment freely then chances are that person will end up being a very curious person later on in life. The more a child know at an early age the more s/he wants to know later on in life. Now I might go off topic for talking about this because I don't know if it has anything to do with belief system but just to talk about the things you brough up.
Mostly, I am stunned at the amount of people who aren't curious enough to explore their beliefs/opinions/both.
My believe is that it has alot to do with school and the way they built our belief system. My belief system had told me not to jump into this static wagon and for that I didn't do too well in school because I choose not to fit in. I am curious by nature as well and I made a choice not to accept the new system (school). Because by accepting the school system means I will see the world the way the school wants me to see it rather than the way I would like to see it based on my nurture and nature.
And all this got me thinking.. could there be such thing as "Open" and "Closed" belief system? That by closing it you've made up your mind on that certain belief and that there's nothing and no one can change it because deep inside you know that that's the absolute truth? what about a system that was programmed to be curious?
edit: I forgot your last statement...
I would never be able to prove that most of what I've found is the absolute truth,
Not many of us can. And our perception of truth is what we've been taugh and learned. Every system has its own truth and by accepting a certain system means you are or will accept truths that comes with it. You cannot deny it because you're living with the system and alot of things about you are based on that system. Therefore, if anyone tells you something that has strong connection with your system you will automatically considered it as truth. Even though it might not be abosulte but it's truth nontheless because you're using your system to judge. It has a connection so it must be real. And you know that it is because you are the system.
Which answer your original question: I'm just wondering what makes someone 'feel' that this is 'right', even w/out hardcore evidence
Perhaps the evidence is already inside your belief system??
I like the way you were able to give me a better understanding of how are beliefs 'come about'. I've been waiting hours just to see your reply!! lol
And you came through for me!!! :D
Back to subject - your thought on the "open" and "closed" belief system. Well, one look around ATS will answer that one!! Is it merely a choice, tho? If you come across something that rattles your "closed" belief system, how closed was it in the first place.
Do you remember the story of that priest(?) that came across some old parchments supposedly taken out of the bible that "rocked his world" (current 'closed' belief system) to which he went the total opposite direction and joined a cult?
I believe my current system is open because I'm continually integrating new theories into it. This is my Rainbow Path. The more I learn, the more gets integrated - not always explained - the more sure I am of what I believe. Does that make sense to you? (oh well, does to me!)
And yes - the evidence seems to lead back to what is already there. What I feel is right is my perception and can only be viewed (or felt) through these eyes and this heart. Rarely, if ever, do we find someone that can percieve our individual concepts in the same way.
I'll reedit this post and add more link if I come across.
Separate names with a comma.