Consciousness

[Lady Wolf]

This leads me to question, what logical function can the brain have to drive the concious mind by chemical means to believe that it is more than it really is? Wouldn't this cause a higher chance of being self-destructive to the body? Most individuals would boldly state they are more then just a chemical reaction among cells in the brain. Could the occurance of a self-destructive chemical reaction in the brain be classified as a fault of the human form by default of societal growth, or some form of disease?

[badkitty]

Bode:

Before I respond to your post I just want to clarify (though I'm sure this is understood) that I am in no way attacking you personally. I want to ensure that this discussion remains only an exchange of ideas and not combative. Now onward -

If you have a belief in the spiritual how do you maintain and feed it?

Through research, investigation and analytical contemplation.

Well, you can remain open all you want, but if you are ever to achieve your freedom in a world that desires your enslavement you must do a little more than keep an open mind.

What do you suggest is required to “achieve my freedom”? And who exactly is it that is trying to “enslave me” and for what purpose?

I asked NIH scientists if they were working on anything like this and they assured me they weren't. So just skip to the last page, because an answer will not come in your lifetime.

Probably true – an answer will not come in my lifetime so I cannot know this answer and it would be foolish for me to pretend I do. I can only go with what is currently known. I understand future generations will know more and will look upon us a foolish, that is ok. We are working on learning and growing and will pave the way for those future generations. Note my signature line – this applies here.

I am not here to defend L. Ron Hubbard, nor scientology. I read his books and found a ton of info that upon reading it, I immediately affirmed it, as if I already knew it somehow( I had a similar experience in 8th grade when I took Geometry and read all those axioms for the first time ).

Again, you have had an experience I have not had so I’ll have to take your word that this is the basis for your understanding and belief. However, an experience that cannot be reproduced systematically by others does not suffice as proof of anything. I see where you are coming from based on your experience but I just cannot react the same way as I have not experienced this and find no compelling proof of anything Hubbard espoused.

Ancient literature is filled with out of body experiences, and it is the highest level to be attained in some disciplines, and when you hear of people's lives flashing before their eyes, it is because near death all sinews that hold blockage in place on the time track disappear, so this then is possible.

This could also be a chemical reaction in the brain – again, memories

I enjoy watching people perpetrate their not-knowingness. It gives me a kick. I'm good. I'm alright.You can reject L.Ron and others at your peril. It is no pain to me. I'll be fine

If you really believe in this – and believe that my non-believe can cause the detriment of other spirits then why would it give you a kick? Are you one of those who is trying to enslave me? Are you a sadists?

So you affirm the notion that humans are bags of bone, blood, and mustard. That you read this in the books of the deniers who were in denial doesn't surprise me at all. These who use lobotomy and chemical lobotomy, and then have you talk about your problems to their reagitation for years to no avail at $150/hr are quacks wouldn't you say. They don't want you to become well.

Not bags, shells. I believe our views, beliefs and habits are molded by our experiences and learnings. I believe my entire life is an evolutionary process. My psyce/soul/mind is continually growing, learning and evolving. I am not today who I was 5, 10, 15 years ago. I grow, change and evolve daily. I can apply this spiritually as well. If I “was” before I was born into this life, I was not the same as I am now. I will leave this life different – with different experiences, different knowledge and different views. And if I return I will gain additional experiences and views. This is a positive thing – not a negative. It means my view is that there is always something new to learn, there is always something to discover there is always room for growth and improvement. In fact it is this very desire to learn and grow that has propelled the advancement of humanity through out history.

What planet are you on? Most people are either angry or when not angry have dropped to despair, and ecstasy only happens with them in rare unbound moments which for the lot are few and far between.

I believe I’m on the planet we call earth - though that may just be a figment of my imagination. = )
I am not angry right now yet I am not in despair. In fact, I could allow myself to become angry or at least very frustrated with you due to this conversation yet I choose not to. I choose to remain peaceful and analytical. True ecstasy does seem to be rare these days but it due more to lack of time to pursue it. It can be achieved with intent.

Most people I know are ill all the time looking for sympathy, which in my book is "Poison" with a capitol 'P'.

Maybe you are hanging out with the wrong crowd. However, I hope for your sake that you never experience real illness (such as cancer, ms or the like) – for that would surely burst your bubble wouldn’t it?

As for this, the answer will only be arrived at when you answer it for yourself. I can tell you this you did not get here by accident.

I see no need to discuss this aspect any further as you clearly refuse to directly answer this question and can provide no proof of your view.

[badkitty]

Originally posted by tablet
I'm constantly predicting my next move far into the future. How I do it is this: I observe the present and take the past into account and make my prediction for the future.
I think to see is to understand. Having understanding means you will see. IF you are aware of who you are, your past and present.
Also one more thing. There's two direction for you to look. Outside or Inside or Both. I don't know if this is true but I see pattern in everything that occured to me which give me advantage to play along and end it whenever I like. (Todd, now you know why. ) IF you look inside yourself you will see the pattern of all things that happened to you. IF you look outside of yourself... you might not beaware of the patterns or things that is taking place.

Tablet:

What you described here is the essence of "Critical Thinking". It is the process of making sound decisions based on inquiry, consideration of possible outcomes and careful weighing of the costs. We can attribute this discipline the great mind of Socrates however, the act itself is a natural process for those who employ logic and ethical standards. There is nothing supernatural here, only logical and ethical.

[tablet]

I've just watched Inside Your Mind by Derren Brown. It's a documentary where he demostrate his power. Watching that I now don't know what to think. It's way beyond what I can comprehend. Check it out if you haven't I'm sure it will turn our discussion here upside down.

[bodebliss]

Through research, investigation and analytical contemplation.

I would really like to know what this research and investigation entails.

How can you expect analytical thinking out of a mind bereft of full faculty.

What do you suggest is required to “achieve my freedom”? And who exactly is it that is trying to “enslave me” and for what purpose?

'Dianetics 55', 'Scientology:the fundamentals of thought' are two good books to start with as my path has been duplicated by many and many more will duplicate it in a time to come as techniques and understanding grows.

Here are some sites of groups who have done allot of research on this:

http://www.fzaoint.net/

http://www.sgmt.at/gce/gce4.htm

http://freezoneamerica.org/pilot/self/chapter_11.html

http://freezoneamerica.org/pilot/sscio/07_01.html

http://www.etext.org/Fiction/PurpleNotebook/ch4222.html

http://www.etext.org/Fiction/PurpleNotebook/ch516.html

This is a start , you'll find other sources. The people you hold most dear would not like you to change. The world is against the spirit, if it slows down the redistribution of assets through untimely death, and maladies of living such as illness, drug abuse, crime and such, but they love organized religion if it means long suffering and early death.

I believe my entire life is an evolutionary process. My psyce/soul/mind is continually growing, learning and evolving. I am not today who I was 5, 10, 15 years ago. I grow, change and evolve daily. I can apply this spiritually as well. If I “was” before I was born into this life, I was not the same as I am now. I will leave this life different – with different experiences, different knowledge and different views. And if I return I will gain additional experiences and views. This is a positive thing – not a negative. It means my view is that there is always something new to learn, there is always something to discover there is always room for growth and improvement. In fact it is this very desire to learn and grow that has propelled the advancement of humanity through out history.

Well, I like this, for the most part. I am under the impression that we are optimum spirits before we enter this life( who can resist the happy laughing baby), and have our abilities impinged upon by non-survival notions from an early age, sometimes deeply, till we don't know ourselves for what we are. I blame the parents, but I also blame their parents, and so on. You might call it original sin. I just look at it as perpetrated generational violence, and if it's not stopped it will be handed down to the next generation.

I applaud your desire for learning, but on the other hand all your efforts might amount to only getting back to 40% of what you were before your start.

I believe I’m on the planet we call earth - though that may just be a figment of my imagination. = )
I am not angry right now yet I am not in despair. In fact, I could allow myself to become angry or at least very frustrated with you due to this conversation yet I choose not to. I choose to remain peaceful and analytical. True ecstasy does seem to be rare these days but it due more to lack of time to pursue it. It can be achieved with intent.

You are on planet Earth and it is good as the world could use a few more seekers of truth. Emotions are indicators of level, and the human world is always just below anger. So it rises a little and it's at anger, it drops a little and it's at fear. This is your planet. The spirit that has the impingements, that I spoke of removed, would float upwards thru anger, reservedness, to enthusiasm w/ leaps of ecstasy at the drop of a hat. Now I know what your thinking, you have known people who were constantly at this level and you despise them. Well, why not join them instead. If you were truly free you could drop down and 'be' in an angry environment and once out of it immediately returns to optimum.

Tone Scale

I see where you are coming from based on your experience but I just cannot react the same way as I have not experienced this and find no compelling proof of anything Hubbard espoused.
----------------AND--------------
This could also be a chemical reaction in the brain – again, memories

I only wish you could "SEE". If it is in my imagination, I must be imagining it for a myriad of others, as per the Links above. If it is a mere chem reaction, it is a most enjoyable one, that only enhances my happiness, and takes nothing from me, and does not diminish over time, but only improves.

and lastly

If you really believe in this – and believe that my non-belief can cause the detriment of other spirits then why would it give you a kick? Are you one of those who is trying to enslave me? Are you a sadists?

I am not the messiah. I don't usually speak about these things. People are as they are because they don't want to drop the only reality they know for an unknown, even if it were to give them Heaven on Earth. They can't see beyond that which was instilled in them from an early age and even if it's drug abuse, self-torture, and abuse of others it is a "known" to them and they hold it like a diamond clutched tightly in their hands, not even willing to pull it out and examine it for fear of loss of what little they have. This is reality. I can't wrestle it away from them even if it is pure spiritual poison for them. They must give it up themselves.

You know when people who are drug addicts want treatment, they must get on a list and wait years to be treated. I arrived where I am because I could read and apply what I read and also I did not have far to travel to get here, if they were to implement a structured program for the world to free everyone, the list would stretch around the world several times. It's not that it's not doable, there is also the denial-resistance factor to think about.

It would be nice to live in a world w/o violence, crime, accident, and they say 70% of all illness is emotional stress related, that too would disappear.





[Edited on 1-16-2005 by bodebliss]

[badkitty]

Originally posted by tablet
I've just watched Inside Your Mind by Derren Brown. It's a documentary where he demostrate his power. Watching that I now don't know what to think. It's way beyond what I can comprehend. Check it out if you haven't I'm sure it will turn our discussion here upside down.

Was this on tv or a video that I might be able to rent?

[badkitty]

Bode:

I don't have time to respond right now - I'm running out. But stay tuned, I would like to continue our discussion.

[OdraNoel]

Will it just annoy everyone if I use the analogy of a cow grazing in a field whilst a stealth bomber flies overhead at 40,000 ft. What will that cow know of the bomber? Is that the same type of question, i.e are we inside a consciousness because of the questions, or the fact that we can ask those questions?

Ow, that really hurt my egg shaped head.

What I mean is, can a dolphin wonder why it got run over by your ski boat before it dies? Would it feel injustice? I don't think we are at that stage of discovery where we can know, but I tell you what the subject is hot and I'm glad I joined up, even with my bizarre, egg shaped old head I have here with me on this bacon shaped plate.:ham:

[Ikebana]

Consciousness is an internal awareness of an event or item, to which one is personally connected.

:lb:

[Ape]

Mabe your your mind puts you in a dream like statis for all eternity when you.....expire. Hmmmmm...........